Blog » Reclaiming conscious agency
This reviews a recent paper by Alexander Batthyany, which looks at the implications of experiments by Benjamin Libet and more recently C.S. Soon, for the existence or otherwise of freewill. Libet's subjects were asked to make voluntary finger movements. The experiments showed that a readiness potential was detected in the brain 350 milliseconds before a movement, while the subjects were aware of their conscious intention to act only 200 ms before the movement. Therefore, neuronal activity preparatory to movement happened 150 ms before conscious awareness of the intention to act.
Libet himself did not support the view that his experiments showed that there was no such thing as conscious will. He found that some subjects reported an urge to action, which they nevertheless decided not to carry out. On this basis, Libet took the view that conscious will could operate a veto on urges arising from earlier readiness potentials in the brain. The impulse from the readiness potential could be vetoed in the 200 ms interval between conscious awareness and action. This idea allows consciousness some causal efficacy, and this very definitely places Libtet's view outside of mainstream consciousness thinking. Researchers and commentators in the freewill area are not always aware of Libet's personal interpretation.
With Soon's experiment, it was claimed that there was no evidence for the veto function suggested by Libet. However, Batthyany argues that this experiment was set up in such a way that the veto capacity was unlikley to be manifested. In the Libet experiment, subjects had been allowed to ignore their initial urge, wherreas in the Soon experiment, they were instructed to act immediately, in response to the first urge.
A variety of arguments are put forward against the view that the Libet/Soon experiments constitute a refutation of the existence of freewill. A distinction is made between, on the one hand, urges or experiences of which we are passively aware, and on the other, actively created intentions and actions. Examples of the passive kind of experience or desire are hunger or preferences for particular types of food. Such things are consciously experienced, but are not felt to have arisen from any act of conscious will or decision. In other cases, however, the conscious awareness of an intention or an action is felt as arising from the conscious will. Even in mainstream thinking it is usually accepted that this is what it feels like, but here, the feeling is taken to be an illusion.
Batthyany argues that the Libet/Soon experiments only study the passive and not the active type of experience, and these experiments are therefore invalid in respect to the debate about the existence of freewill. The instruction in the Libet experiments to wait for an urge to act is argued to fall into the category of a passive desire, rather than a willed intention. On this basis, Libet's experiments are argued to merely confirm the intuitive feeling that passive desires such as hunger are not consciously willed. In merely referring to such passive urges, the Libet/Soon experiments are argued to tell us nothing about the nature of consciously willed intentions or actions.
Soon's study closely follows Libet, but with the additional feature of the subjects having to press one of two buttons with their left or right index finger. Activity relative to this decision was found to precede the action by up to ten seconds. In 60% of cases, the researchers were able to predict which button the subject would press. Much has been made of the statistically significant 10% margin over chance. However, the author argues that because there is no apparent reason to choose on option over the other, this choice will also end up being the result of a passive urge, and is therefore also irrelevant to the question of freewill.
Batthyany's criticism of Libet-type experiments, to the effect that they do not deal with actively willed decisions, but only with passive urges, overlaps with my own criticism of the Libet based argument against freewill, to the effect that they only deal with the trivial type of actions that are very often performed on autopilot, and too conveniently ignore the more deliberative, strategic or long-term decisions that might be thought to be more relevant to the question of freewill.
A very interesting experiment. As for me I'd like to find the experiments with our subconscious or intuition. Well, sometimes it seems to me that we know everything but do not realize it. But when it happens to do something without giving it a thought, when you do something mechanically you see that somehow you manage to do it well.
Posted by Rapidshare SE, 18/04/2010 7:48pm (2 years ago)
In addition what I wrote before:
"If humans are entangled cooperating decision makers inside the postulated 8 or 12 entangled but separated universes, then for every decision we need always only one preplanning test-person who pre-plans his choice. The other 7 or 11 test copy-persons are only able to follow OR VETO this decision.
So; the base for Free Will is the possibility to VETO and act or decision".
THE SURPRIZE and addition:
PREPLANNING ITSELF (in this button pressing case) SHOULD NOT BE SEEN A CONSCIOUS ACT !!!
If preplanning is interpreted as the base for INTUITION AND CREATIVITY, then me also may postulate that BOTH ARE SUB-CONSCIOUS!
Question: where does our intuition come from? is there some sort of an Earth bound human memory in space all around us?
Posted by Leo Vuyk, 02/01/2010 12:12pm (2 years ago)
I fully agree that the original Libet experiment can not be compared with the Soon experiment.
The power of the Libet experiment is indeed that that conscious will could operate a veto on urges arising from earlier readiness potentials.
However in my view also the moment of the original urge is very important.
This is what Libet did not measured in his statistics: the percetage of subjects who did report to have thought about pressing the button longer than 500 msec before the action took place.
This is an important question, if we ralize that we could live inside a set of entangled multiverses. ( sorry but I am serious)
If we postulate that the universe remained after the big bang symmetric and is equipped with matterial and anti-matterial mutual entangled copy-regions, then we humans are also entangled !
see below:
Free Will inside the Multiverse.
Benjamin Libet measured the so called electric Readiness Potential (RP) time to perform a volitional act, in the brains of his students and the time of conscious awareness (TCA) of that act, which appeared to come 500 msec behind the RP. The “volitional act” was the by free choice pressing on an electric bell button.
see:
http://skeptically.org/spiritualism/id11.html
The results of this experiment gives still an ongoing debate in the broad layers of the scientific community, because the results are still (also in recent experiments) in firm contrast with the expected idea of Free Will and causality.
We would expect that based on causality the Time of Conscious Awareness (TCA) ALWAYS comes before the electric RP, which is found to be present in our head because this would be the proof that we humans are equipped with the free will to press on the button at the moment WE are also conscious to do that!!!.
HOWEVER Libet (and later all other researchers) measured the opposite for most of the students. Only a FEW students reported to have “PREPLANNED their ACTION” (RPI in the next figure)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ArDoWzECXSo/SIi5189lBhI/AAAAAAAAAq0/DEFA0FAQbBY/s1600-h/LIBET+PERCENTAGES+2.jpg
A causal but weird Multiverse solution.
If we assume that the postulated that we are living inside one of the 12 copy universes, which are each others observer by “mutual entanglement” to trigger randomly and alternating the collapse of the copy wavefunctions, (thus also to trigger a volitional act, like Libet's subjects) in the other 11 universes.
Then as a consequence, we may expect that only a small part of the students will report to have had the conscious intention to act earlier. Thus in the case of 12 entangled universes we may expect that 1/12 part or 8,3 % of all (human) timing of conscious intention to act, will show a reversed timing sequence between the so called Time of conscious awareness (TCA) which will come BEFORE the electric Readiness Potential (RP).
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ArDoWzECXSo/SIi5189lBhI/AAAAAAAAAq0/DEFA0FAQbBY/s1600-h/LIBET+PERCENTAGES+2.jpg
Indications of those percentages, are already found by Judy Trevena and Jeff Miller (Otago university NZ). See:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12191935&dopt=Abs
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The Benjamin Libet percentage results of pre-planning (RPII) are very poor quantified in his and later experiments. He wrote to me in private, that these numbers where "buried" inside his files and therefore, he was not able to produce them.
I my view this is a good reason to do it again with more precision on the readiness potential percentage differences between RPI and RPII..If humans are entangled cooperating decision makers inside the postulated 8 or 12 entangled but separated universes, then for every decision we need always only one preplanning test-person who pre-plans his choice. The other 7 or 11 test copy-persons are only able to follow OR VETO this decision.
So; the base for Free Will is the possibility to VETO and act or decision.
As a result we may be able to measure (in the future) the number of copy universes involved, by counting the average percentages of preplanning persons in test situation like the Libet test..For 12 universes the RPI percentage will be 100/12=8,3%. For 8 universes RP I will be 12,5% For RP II it will be 91,7 respectively 87,5%
Posted by Leo Vuyk, 02/01/2010 11:38am (2 years ago)
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